MENOMORPHOSIS
A podcast for busy women riding the rollercoaster of midlife and menopause who are eager to get back to living their best life.
It's never too late to transform, and you’re certainly not too old. And in my opinion, midlife and menopause provide the perfect opportunity to do just that.
Join me each week for inspiring stories and expert insights on topics covering all things midlife, menopause and personal development.
So when you’re ready, let your beautiful menomorphosis begin!
MENOMORPHOSIS
Thursday Thoughts - Integrity
On today’s Thursday's Thoughts, Lucy and I are talking about integrity.
The word integrity means intact, whole, undivided; and the real question is: are we living in integrity, or are we out of integrity, divided from ourselves?
In this conversation, Lucy and I talk about the societal conditioning that sends many of us down the ‘conveyor belt’ of life, away from our true nature and the things we truly desire for ourselves.
We also talk about situations in which we both found ourselves living out of integrity, and what we did to move ourselves back into alignment.
We sincerely hope you’ll find something interesting or thought provoking in here!
Love,
Polly & Lucy x
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Hello and welcome to Thursday Thoughts. Thursday Thoughts what on earth are they? I hear you ask. Well, my friend Lucy and I meet every week over on Instagram to talk all things personal growth, because she is as obsessed with it as I am, and we decided that we might as well put those conversations out as a weekly podcast. So now you can listen to us chat here on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts, and we'll be talking about topics such as spirituality, limiting beliefs, the ego imposter syndrome, gratitude, meditation, confidence and so much more. So if you're ready, here we go.
Speaker 1:Today we're talking about, about integrity.
Speaker 2:Yes, so shall I kick it off. Yeah, that was my go for it. So basically, I I find this subject absolutely fascinating, not least because have you heard of martha beck? Yes, she, when I think of integrity, I think about martha beck and she talks a lot about it. She's what she? I actually haven't read her book, the Way of Integrity, but she talks a lot about integrity and I think it's such an important subject and and actually we can talk about.
Speaker 2:You know, I think people tend to think of integrity in terms of you know the things that you do when nobody's watching. Are you sort of you know, sort of what are you behaving in the way that you do when nobody's watching? Are you sort of you know, sort of what are you behaving in the way that you say you are when you're, when you're on your own kind of thing? But also it means it. The word actually means intact, so it means whole, it means like undivided, and I think when, when I think about integrity, I think of it more in terms of am I in integrity with, with myself? Um, because I think in our, basically, when we are tolerating a situation where we feel uncomfortable, we are out of integrity, and I think so many of us do that, and I have most definitely done that in my life, I and the thing about it is is that when you're living out of integrity, it starts to come out in some very not nice ways, like physical illness, mental illness, all of that stuff. So actually it's pretty bloody serious and actually it's essentially the same as being in alignment, isn't it? Yeah, and but when I've used this example before, but I think this is such a good example of being completely out of integrity and really suffering because of it when I'd left Radio 2 and I did the detective thing and I was out of alignment when I was, I was out of integrity when I was at Radio 2 because and this is the thing about it we actually always know because we can feel, we just feel it in our bodies, we feel it, we know when we're not doing what we should be doing. Um, but anyway, when I left radio 2 into the detective thing, I ended up being signed off by my GP. I was literally, uh, not well in my head, I wasn't well in my body, because I was completely out of integrity with who the fuck I actually am and what I should actually be doing with my life.
Speaker 2:And so the problem is, I think, in our society we get sent down this path, this conveyor belt. You know, we are taught that we're meant to do this and then we do this, and then we kind of, you know, go into the corporate world and we do this, we do this and we do this and we follow the path, we follow the. We just go down this conveyor belt that's been laid out for us, this script that's been set out for us, and so many of us end up feeling like there is something seriously wrong because we're not actually living in integrity with who we truly are, and it's, it's largely the fault of the way that we've been socialized, essentially, and you know, the things that we think we're meant to do, the things that we think we're supposed to do, towing the line, and there's always that worry of but if I go and do the thing that I know my heart wants to do, then I'm not going to be loved, I'm not going to feel like I belong, people are going to think I'm crazy, people aren't going to like me, people aren't going to want to hang out with me. So often it's fear that keeps us from living our lives in true integrity. And going back to Martha Beck I've heard her talk about this on various podcasts several times she decided she was 29 years old when she decided to not tell a lie for a whole year. So she did not tell one lie. And it's very easy for us to think, oh well, but you know, but I, I don't lie, I'm, you know, I'm not a liar like we all fucking lie all the time to ourselves, to other people, whether that is something we're not saying or the way that we're saying something or something we're holding back.
Speaker 2:And Martha Beck did this thing for a year, which I just think is absolutely genius, and basically her entire world blew up. She lost loads of people because she started doing things like. You know, if a friend quote unquote friend would phone her up and say, oh, I haven't heard from you for a while. And you know, if a friend quote-unquote friend would phone her up and say, oh, I haven't heard from you for a while, and you know, be really good to see you, she'd be like I'm really sorry, I just, I just don't like spending time with you. I'm really sorry because she was being honest.
Speaker 2:But you know, and, and how, how many, how many times, how many times do we do that? How many of us do that? I know I do, I know that I am dishonest about, you know, perhaps, things I want to do or people that I want to hang out with because I feel bad and I don't want to be honest with them. So we end up lying to ourselves and to other people. And what it does is it just complete, just keeps pushing us more and more and more out of integrity. And but but one thing that I've also had her talk about is the fact that and I totally see this to be the truth because since I sort of started living my life more in integrity, if you like, since I, you know, left the detective thing, started a podcast, started talking about the whole single child free thing, started basically living a life that is is far more in alignment with who I really am and what I actually truly want to be doing with my life, which is, you know, doing something that is my thing.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to be, you know. Going back to the detective thing, I did not want to be there from the day I walked in. I mean, I wasn't there for very long, but from the day that I walked in I knew that it was wrong. I knew that it was wrong for me. My soul was was screaming. I didn't want to be there, but I stayed there because I felt like I should. I felt guilty about leaving another career I'd already left radio too, but it was. It got to the point where my GP sent me off, signed me off, that I. I was literally feeling ill because I was so out of integrity with what I should have been doing or I'm meant to be doing, and and it's you know.
Speaker 2:I feel really quite passionate about this subject actually, because I think so many of us are not living in alignment with who we truly are, but we feel like we should and we're too scared to do something different. We're too scared to step outside of the box, but we're too scared and, like so many things in life, it so often boils down to the fear about what other people think. Um, but yeah, I just think the thing about living for a year without, literally without telling any lies is just absolutely genius and, as Martha Beck says, her entire life literally just exploded. She ended up really realizing that she was a lesbian. She left her marriage. She left. She grew up in a Mormon community. She left that. She was like shunned by family and friends. Everything went crazy, but of course, as soon as she started living in integrity with herself, then she started finding people who were also living in that way and she started meeting the people that were meant to be in her life. Sorry, polly, I've just literally talked for like 10 minutes.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna shut up you go, you go, lucy, it's all good.
Speaker 1:I mean that you know that says it all really, um, yeah, I mean, I wholeheartedly agree, and I love Martha Beck because she also didn't. She also, she had a quite a big job as a at Stanford University or big university, and she also left that as well, which a lot of people were like what? You're leaving that incredible job, yes, and yet look at her now she's highly successful, living a life she loves, living a life she absolutely loves. So, yeah, she's a really, really good example. But I think, you know there are many examples, uh, of people being just living in integrity as well, in terms of, I suppose the other way we see integrity, which is what you started with, it's like, you know you're, you are living by your values and you're behaving in a particular way, even if no one's watching.
Speaker 1:You know, someone who springs to mind is Nelson Mandela. You know he was in prison for 27 years for standing up for his rights and then he went on to do everything else he did. So it's, it really is about that wholeness. Yes, integritas. You know, I did. I used to love Latin. It was such a weird subject to be very good at, but I was very, very good at it and I. It's amazing how you just remember these words, and I do remember integrity. Integritas meant complete completeness or wholeness, and that, that, I think, is a, is a really great way of looking at it, because I think a lot of us don't look at it in that way. And if you are being true to yourself, then you can't help but live a life of integrity. Yeah, yeah, and whereas I think how it's kind of put across mostly is by these are your, what are your values, what are your morals? Are you living your life by those and I suppose that they're very similar, but for me it's, I agree, it's a bit more are you living a life true to who you really are within yourself? That whole alignment piece? Um, and I too can think of examples when I just haven't, when I, when I left teaching and I had a, I did four years of running a tuition business.
Speaker 1:It was a franchise business and I was just so desperate to get out of teaching and this came. I found this. I saw an advert, I applied, I got, I got this franchise. It wasn't a massively expensive franchise to buy, but it was essentially starting your own business from scratch, which I was also very keen to do, but with support. So I was like, great, this is like a win, win, win, tick, tick, tick, without really re understanding what the pros, the method of was, of the franchise, of the tutoring.
Speaker 1:And as I got into it I realized, oh my goodness, I don't want to be teaching in this way. It really was very old fashioned learning by rote and I didn't. It's just not how I was used to teaching, it just wasn't my way of teaching. So I ended up going to the, to the chief executive, saying I don't like this way. And he's like right, we'll improve it if you want. You know what can we do to improve it? So I spent hours, and they did pay me very well for it, but I spent hours rewriting a load of their materials for maths and trying to make it better. But essentially what I I struggled with is we created all these amazing new materials.
Speaker 1:The people, the, the business itself and all the other people who had franchises and they were all over the country just weren't.
Speaker 1:They just weren't going to buy my method and they, as I tried and tried and tried to change it to what I thought it should be and it just wasn't working.
Speaker 1:So in the end it was just making me miserable, and actually the whole thing was making me miserable. And I tried so hard because my business, my little business, was actually doing really well, but at the end of the day it was like this just isn't right for me. I can't stick with this method of tutoring because it just doesn't work, I just don't believe in it and it doesn't work for me. So, yeah, I had to leave and actually it was the best thing possible. But what it did do is it made me realise that doing a job that you really don't like, even though there are so many good bits to it, because it was giving me the freedom I wanted, it was bringing in, it was creating good income, it was allowing me to be more present for my kids, it had all these things I wanted and yet, at the heart and soul of it, it just wasn't right and so it felt it just didn't feel right and it was making me really miserable.
Speaker 1:It was really I felt like it was squashing my soul. Yeah, it's really not not right. So, yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't stick with it, I had to leave. I had to leave and and move and do what I I do now and I think it's so important to listen to that and be in tune with that.
Speaker 1:And sadly, I see too many people doing things because they feel they have to, because they feel they haven't got any choices. And I know, financially we all have responsibilities and we have to make sure, you know that those are met to a certain extent yet. But it's worth looking at something if it is giving, if it is making you miserable, and just seeing what can I do today? You know I'm not saying leave what you're currently doing, leave your job and have nothing to do, but you can actually start to follow those little streams of interest and do something on the side Rather than sit and watch TV at night night. What can you do to nurture that cure and be curious about that interest which sparks joy in you and just see where that might go?
Speaker 1:Totally so nothing. No, you know we're not here, as some scully always says. We're not here to play, pay rent and pay bills. That's just not what we. That's not what we're here to do. We're here to actually live a life and create stuff and make an impact and and have fun and enjoy it and have fun 100%.
Speaker 2:I just I could not agree. Honestly, do you know what I actually feel? Quite emotional talking about this, because I think it's, I think it's such an important thing for all of us to think about because we need and again it goes back to to fear this is what is stopping us. This is fear is what is stopping us always. Because if we really get quiet and we really are honest with ourselves and say is what I am doing with my life? Is, is this what I want? Is this what I truly want? Does this feel right for me?
Speaker 2:Is this job that I am in, that I do nine to five, that pays the bills that I dread going to on a Sunday evening, that I I'm always wishing the week away and counting down how many weeks I have till my two-week summer vacation? Why did I just say vacation? I'm British. My two-week summer holiday, um, you know, we have, we have to get, we have to. You know, because, unless we get really honest with ourselves and and and I, I actually believe that we all know, um, you know, we all know, really, it's just that we choose to push away those feelings and I think part of the problem again going back to society and you know, know I sound like such a like fuck society man, but but truly, going back to that, we are taught that we're supposed to tolerate things that are really fucking uncomfortable. Yeah, we are. We are taught to tolerate things that are really uncomfortable, that we feel like we have to do them.
Speaker 2:And, and actually going back to your, what you were saying about joy and curiosity, I know that there will be people thinking, oh well, fucking hell. You know it's easy for you to say and actually it's not easy for me to say, because I've been through some pretty tough times to to fight, to live a life where I feel like I'm free and I feel like I'm in control of my life. I, yeah, it hasn't been easy for me at all, but I know that people get really triggered and annoyed, like, yeah, but I have to pay the bills. And, yes, we all have to pay the bills, myself included. But there are other ways to think. There are other ways to earn money than to just go down that conveyor belt of the corporate world, which is totally, for some people, in which some people love and some people are really happy, and that's awesome yeah, I agree, but what I would say.
Speaker 1:So I'm just thinking of my husband, who is in a corporate job and there are aspects of it he does really really enjoy and loves, but there are aspects of it he does really really enjoy and loves, but there are aspects of it he really doesn't. He thinks it's all a load of bullshit and he, um, I don't know if I'm supposed to be careful, but he, um, he is sticking with it for now because he has a great sense of responsibility for his family and I have always said to him you need to follow what you want to do. But I suppose what he doesn't, he, what he, he doesn't really know his other path, but I think for him he would say, being integrity is. I truly believe that I want to make sure that I've got I'm providing a real stable home, like you know, stability for my kids, and I'm always like, well, I'm here, I can, you know, it's fine, but he, it's such a inbuilt responsibility for him that it overrides that what he actually wants to do Exactly. And however much I have gone on about this to him, it does override it, which I always quite find quite fascinating. Yeah, because I'm constantly saying, well, well, I hope you don't look back and regret not doing something else. But I suppose for him he doesn't. He says but there's so many parts of my life which I do exactly what I want and I love, and he's outdoors and he's on his bike and he's running and he's doing all these other things.
Speaker 1:So I suppose for what I suppose what I bring that up is if someone is going oh, it's all right for you, or whatever, maybe you're somebody whose responsibility, perhaps, or whatever that thing is, overrides that desire to truly do what you want, because that actually makes you feel good. Yeah, you see what I mean. Yeah, that is fueling you in some way. So if that's you, then don't, then just don't whinge about the thing that you're doing. Find the joy in the thing that you're doing, because there's that, you know, that's. That's obviously not. That's a decision that you are making. If you are staying in the thing that you're doing, does that make sense? It makes complete sense and as a decision that you are making, if you are staying, in the thing that you're doing.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? It makes complete sense and, as ever, polly, you are very much the voice of reason. When I start going off on a rant, I feel really passionate about something and, yes, I mean, I know exactly what you're saying and it makes complete sense and I truly do understand that and appreciate that. And you know, yes, it's definitely the case for some people, for for many people, for sure. But I think one thing I just want to pick up on about that you were saying about following joy and curiosity. I think we we forget or we're maybe not even aware of the fact that actually, when it comes to earning a living, it's really funny how, when you start to follow your integrity and follow your joy and follow your curiosity, it's really interesting how things start to open up. So, yes, of course I get that everybody can't just hand their notice in and you know blah, blah, blah. But what everybody can do, like you were saying, instead of you know, sitting watching tv every night, people can be, um, following their curiosity and and for anyone thinking, but I've got no idea, you know, I've got no idea what my purpose is. I've got no idea what my purpose is. I've got no idea what my passion is. I've got no idea. It doesn't have to be that grand, it can be as simple as what do you enjoy doing? What lights you up? And we all have things that light us up what? What sparks your curiosity? What are you even interested in? And I think when you start just taking baby steps down that path, just exploring that, I think it's almost inevitable that that it will lead to something that is that is right for you. And and I get that some people probably rolling their eyes going, lucy, shut the fuck up, like you don't know what you're talking about. And I have to pay bills and mortgage, and again, me too.
Speaker 2:But I do think that we, because we have been so conditioned to believe that we have to follow this conveyor belt, because we fucking have and we are not. You know, in many ways, the way that society is set up in terms of you know what we're expected to do in terms of work. It actually completely goes against our nature, completely go. We're not. We're not meant to go and sit at a desk for eight hours a day, five days. We're just we're. That's not, and you mentioned earlier, that's not what we're here, for we're not here, like like sam skelly says, we're not here to freaking pay the bills and obviously we have to pay the bills but the point of life, the point of being a human being on this freaking spinning sphere through this infinite universe, is not to just suck up a life that has been laid out for us, it's actually to live it.
Speaker 2:And the question that I always ask myself and other people is live it. And the question that I always ask myself and other people is do you feel alive? Because we might be living, but do we feel alive? And I?
Speaker 2:It isn't always easy to live in integrity and it isn't always easy to make changes, but it is possible. And I think we have to realise that we have to be really honest with ourselves about what is standing in our way. Forget the practical things, forget the money, because we, you know, in all of those sort of practicalities yes, we all have to, we all have to think about those things, myself included. Again to reiterate, we all have to think about those things, myself included, again to reiterate, but you know, I just think that you know that there are other paths that we can go down. If only we would allow ourselves to just try things, and we can try things at the same time as doing our nine to five, we can try things on the side where they lead, but we are here for more than just what. What?
Speaker 2:So many of us, the way that so many of us seem to be living, I really believe that I mean we get one fucking life. I had someone say yesterday god, I'm on a run this morning, I'm so sorry. I had someone say on a podcast yesterday or something yesterday that when you think about it, the people that you are, basically there are a completely new set of human beings on the planet every hundred years. So right now we are part of this cohort who are on the planet for a hundred years or whatever it is roughly. And in a hundred years from now it's going to be a completely new cohort of humans that are on the planet, even exists, and actually, when you think about it like that, it's like, yeah, you know what? Actually, what am I going to do with my one wild and precious life?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I know I love that. It's kind of like what am I doing? Just yeah. It's about yeah. For me, it's just about yeah. It's about having an impact in some way. That is really my driver, you know. I want to have an impact in a way that and you know, use what I'm good at it's about really discovering what is your gift that you have brought to this world, because we've all got gifts, even though you might not think you do so, rather than just I, you know, sit on the sofa at night, which sometimes you know is great, and I love doing that too but sometimes it's actually like, you know, what is it that you are just figuring it out, what is it I'm here to do?
Speaker 1:And I've must admit, I'm really discovering my more creative side at the moment, and I know it's and actually I think it's always been there, but I've just never really allowed it to come out. And so yesterday I went, last night, I went and did some. We went, I made a Christmas wreath and things like that. I realized I have no, no kind of qualms of just getting fully stuck in without a plan and just like throwing things in and everyone was loving, because mine are always massive, and it's so funny there was about I don't know. There's about 15 of us and everybody's. We've all got the same starting point. We've all got the same things available to us, and it's so fascinating watching what everyone creates, because every single person is so, so, so different and some are very precise and very neat. Others, like mine, are completely not at all, but it's things like that.
Speaker 1:It's like some people really struggling with that and say, oh my gosh, I can't do it, mine's rubbish, I'm going to copy yours. And then you know someone. I find those sorts of things really enjoyable. Really just go for it, and it kind of makes just doing a very simple exercise like that makes you go oh my gosh, I'm actually so much more creative than I give myself credit for. Or, you know, are you someone who just loves to write? Or, you know, is that something you've always done? You've always been a journalist, so perhaps you know that you've got a voice, so use it in some way. Or are you someone who is always going and helping your neighbor and doing I don't know? It's just like what is your innate? What are innate characteristics which you just always have yeah, had and how can you use them?
Speaker 1:and how can and how can you do more of that if it, if it makes you feel good. You know it's kind of using those and in a way that make that feels good so yeah, and I think you know, for me, I've discovered this, this thing of breath work, that I'm actually really good at facilitating breath work sessions.
Speaker 1:honestly, I didn't even know that existed at one point, but I've sort of followed this pathway and it sort of landed me to this point, you know, of creating playlists, facilitating breathwork sessions, helping people breathe better, helping people feel better. I don't know what it is exactly I do, but from what I hear, I'm really good at it and it gives me so much joy, and so that's taken a little bit of time to kind of find that, and that's not solely what I do, but it's something what I do, and for now, that is something which I'm going to just keep on doing and also so something that you just followed your curiosity, you heard about it and and it piqued your interest and you followed that and now you're doing it and you are fucking brilliant.
Speaker 2:Tell it, because I've had lots of breathwork sessions with you and and also I, I love what you said about creativity because I and this is this is a word that it annoys me because I think ultimately, we are, we are all creative, we, we are all creative. Every human beings are inherently creators and creative, but again, we're pigeonholed. Oh no, but he's good at maths, he's not creative, he. She's good at well, she is really creative, like you know. She's good at art, whatever.
Speaker 2:I happen to be absolutely shit at art and if I went to a Christmas wreath making session, I would literally be the worst, because I'm not, I would, I hate that kind of thing. I'm not crafty at all. However, I am very creative, but not in, yeah, not in in an arty, craft, crafty way, but in a different way. And I love what you said about using your voice, because we can be creative. Like you know, I feel like creating my podcast. That's creativity. Okay, yes, I'm speaking, but that is a form of creation. And I love what you said about. You know, asking yourself what are the inherent qualities that make you you that you can do more of? Because we are here for more than what we think. We're here for what so many of us are here doing. We are, we all have and fear and all of that, but we are all here to do something great and do something awesome and feel alive and feel like we are following some kind of um purpose or calling or whatever you want to call it. And but again, you know it doesn't. I know lots of people don't know what their purpose is and all the rest of it don't don't feel like they have a calling. But it doesn't have to be, because I know it doesn't have to be that grand. It is just I love the way that you said it. It's just asking yourself you know what it? What makes you you, what is it about you?
Speaker 2:Um, what did you do as a kid is often the way to kind of start exploring that. What did I love doing as a kid? What was my? What did I love then? Um, and if you look at kids, you realize that we are all creative, because when we're kids, we're all. We're not when we're not weighed down by all of the layers of shite that are put upon us. We're kids, are completely different and they're just. They are, they're just being creative, they're just being themselves. Yeah, um, it's 10, 31. We've gone a minute over. Oh my gosh, I think you should wrap this up in a measured way. Um.
Speaker 1:I don't know that's like, that's a big pressure now well, I think.
Speaker 1:I mean, this has been a this has been a good conversation. I think we've covered quite a few bases actually with this one. I think, ultimately, being in having integrity is really just again, it just takes it. It comes back to taking time to really understanding you and knowing who you are, and you can do that through many different practices. But the more that you understand yourself and take time to tune in to, to your unique essence, the easier it's going to be to have integrity, because you can then match your life, your actions, your life, your, your curiosities, whatever it is to you, to that and uniqueness that is you, and and I think that's, I think that's kind of it really, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1:Well, I think we're dear when you're done, I think we are all right, well, thank you, and um, yeah, we'll see you next time back on monday, right back on monday yes, I'll see you then.
Speaker 2:All right, see you then. Have a nice day.